Is everyone okay?

[mattias]

> But how do you fight people that believe in martyrdom that have no other purpose in their miserable lives than to wipe out every American on the face of the earth?

have you ever considered why they want to wipe out every american on the face of the earth? have you considered how many people in palestine and other arab countries (i'm not saying for sure they're behind this) have died or lost their loved ones over the years as a direct or indirect result of u.s. policy in the area? i'm not supporting terrorist acts, but i do understand how these folks became so "evil". i also love america and i consider myself part new yorker after living there part time for three years, but i really think demonizing the opponent is the wrong way to go in this case, as in most cases.

/matt

[technicolour]

I dont think anyone is demonizing the people behind it, but the people who were MURDERED in those explosions were innocent men and women going about their ordinray day like you and me, imagine the terror they must felt when they saw an airliner smash into a building right next to them and then see another one come right at them.

Lets not forget these were passenger jets full of innocent people, for all the terroists care those planes could of been full of children, which some of them probably were. Its TOATALLY inexcusable, its totally disgusting and i dont know how anyone could so such a thing, they are evil, untterly evil.

I know Americans have bombed areas in those countries and their policys have been the cause for death, but those attacks are planned to cause minimum civillian casualties and not slam two planes into tower blocks full of innocent men and women

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Jim

[MovieStuff]

Mattias wrote:

"I really think demonizing the opponent is the wrong way to go in this case."

Well, they certainly weren't "angels" falling from the sky into our buildings! Besides, I previously noted that not all of these people are nuts, but it is up to the civilized people of the culprits' home country to police their own. If they aren't going to do it themselves, and it is clear that they won't, then they can't bitch if fed up Americans retaliate.

Every civilized country in this world would bring perpetrators of this kind of violence to justice if it was one of their own citizens. These assholes shouldn't get a free ride if their country really wants to be recognized as part of the free and civilized world. If not, then the hell with them all. I have no use for cowards and I have even less use for a country that would protect them.

Sorry, but I don't quite feel like "sharing the love" at this particular moment. These guys were murderers of the worst kind and any demonizing that has been done was self inflicted at the rate of several hundred miles per hour. No "act of passion" here. They knew exactly what they were doing long in advance. I hope the passengers of the fourth doomed plane that crashed around Pennsyvania beat these guys to death before they hit the ground.

I apologize to all, but I have friends in New York that I haven't been able to contact and I fear the worst. I am just too angry for words. So, perhaps I should take a break from posting for a while. This is a forum about film making and not a political arena. I'll see you guys in a couple of days.

Roger

[mattias]

yes, i know that innocent people were killed, and i think it's horrible (i don't really have a word that fits). *of course* i do. i just don't think it's fair to say that a lot of *innocent* muslim and/or arab people should burn in hell for it. actually, these are *very* bad days to have this discussion, but since roger brought it up, i felt i had to state my view.

> I know Americans have bombed areas in those countries and their policys have been the cause for death, but those attacks are planned to cause minimum civillian casualties and not slam two planes into tower blocks full of innocent men and women

you actually bought that? even if you're only talking about the recent "surgical" wars, there were more civilians killed than you can ever dream of. but i'm also counting the numerous violent acts that israeli police and military commit against palestinians on a regular basis, using weapons given to them by the u.s. and all the people in iraq who starve because of the trade embargo, upheld by the u.s. and the victims from the random bombings of libya and other "rogue states", by the u.s. and its allies.

many of these acts were highly motivated and fair, sure. i'm not saying that they were wrong from a case by case perspective, but i think they created the situation we have now. because to the victims, these incidents made them feel the same way about americans as we feel about the terrorists now. so, trying not to hate the other side so much seems to be the only way to stop this. that's my opinion.
/matt

[Dominic3]

I can not believe some of the things being written on this post - ranging from total appeasement of the terrorist attack to moaning about the motor industry!

I will tell you why America is hated by these fanatics.

America stands for everything that these people hate - Individuality, economic & personal freedom, secularism, a man's right to his own life (and property) and the pursuit of his own happiness. This is in sharp contrast to the religious terrorists who believe in obedience to the supernatural, subdorination of the individual to their ethnic "tribe", collectivism, socialism, and most importantly, sacrifice and death as their standard of value.


God bless America! And I am not even American or religious!

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[trevorbr]

A friend of mine forwarded this message to me. No nation or people are without fault, we are all human. I don't feel superior as an American, but I do feel that our good efforts outweigh those we make in poor judgement.
The love and prayers of me and my family go to out to all who have sufferd and lost in this brutal attack


-trevor


> TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
> This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
> America: The Good Neighbor.
> Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
> recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
> Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
> Commentator. What follows is the full text of his
> trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
> Record:
> "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
> Americans as the most generous and possibly the
> least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany,
> Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy
> were lifted out of the debris of war by the
> Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
> forgave other billions in debts.
>
> None of these countries is today paying even the
> interest on its remaining debts to the United
> States. When France was in danger of collapsing in
> 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and
> their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
> streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
>
> When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
> United States that hurries in to help. This spring,
> 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
> Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman
> Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged
> countries. Now newspapers in those countries are
> writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.
>
> I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
> gloating over the erosion of the United States
> dollar build its own airplane. Does any other
> country in the world have a plane to equal the
> Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the
> Douglas DC10?
>
> If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
> International lines except Russia fly American
> Planes? Why does no other land on earth even
> consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You
> talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios.
> You talk about German technocracy, and you get
> automobiles. You talk about American technocracy,
> and you find men on the moon - not once, but several
> times - and safely home again.
>
> You talk about scandals, and the Americans put
> theirs right in the store window for everybody to
> look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued
> and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most
> of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are
> getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to
> spend here.
>
> When the railways of France, Germany and India were
> breaking down through age, it was the Americans who
> rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the
> New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
> old caboose. Both are still broke.
>
> I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
> to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
> me even one time when someone else raced to the
> Americans in trouble? I don't think there was
> outside help even during the San Francisco
> earthquake.
>
>
> Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
> Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
> kicked around. They will come out of this thing
> with their flag high. And when they do, they are
> entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are
> gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada
> is not one of those."
>
> Stand proud, America! Wear it proudly!!
> This is one of the best editorials that I have ever
> read regarding the United States. It is nice that
> one man realizes it. I only wish that the rest of
> the world would realize it. We are always blamed for
> everything, and never even get a thank you for the
> things we do.
>
> I would hope that each of you would send this to as
> many people as you can and emphasize that they
> should send it to as many of their friends until
> this letter is sent to every person on the web. I am
> just a single American that has read this, TRIBUTE TO
> THE UNITED STATES



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[mattias]

> Sorry, but I don't quite feel like "sharing the love" at this particular moment.

of course not, but save your anger for the people who actually commited these terrible things. use the american spirit and see it for what it is: they are evil because they are evil, and not because they are muslims.

/matt

[mattias]

> America stands for everything that these people hate - Individuality, economic & personal freedom, secularism, a man's right to his own life (and property) and the pursuit of his own happiness.

oh. my. god. are you for real? do you really think they would care, even if this was the reason? go to any palestinian in an occupied area such as the west bank and ask him what he wants the most. chances are you will hear: individuality, economic & personal freedom, a man's right to his own life (and property) and the pursuit of his own happiness. neither of this he has, and he blames the usa for it. perhaps wrongfully, but it is the case. do you think he will like americans more, or less, if his house gets blown up by an american "revenge operation?"

(i left the secularism out of the list, even though i'm sure a lot of palestinians don't care much about god anymore)

/matt

[trevorbr]

In case you didn't know, the U.S. has given weapons to Arabs as well. Check the history books, I'm sure you will find out without having to look very far back.
This is not about Arabs, this is about terrorist, cowards and those who would protect them. We don't even know who is responsible yet. I pray the leaders of all nations will allow themselves to be guided by wisdom. There is no greater task than that of transcending the ills of what it is to be human....what was that quote...."all is vanity and vexation..."?
Man will never live in peace on his own, acts such as these prove that.

-trevor

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[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominic3:
I can not believe some of the things being written on this post - ranging from total appeasement of the terrorist attack to moaning about the motor industry!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even though you ridicule my ideas, the U.S. relies on resources from all over the world to be an economic giant.

And frankly, do you really think our corporations take no for an answer when they want a resource found elsewhere in the world.

You may not see the marketing of inefficient, resource sucking electronics and machinery as an issue...and that is the problem....

Commercials seem so darn normal and innocent in their presentation, it is hard to absorb the deeper meaning behind them.

Our country recently thumbed it's nose at the Kyoto treaty, a treaty signed by 180 other countries.

We are a benevolent monster.

Unfortunately, those in the world who ignore or don't feel the benevolence, just see the monster.

-Alex












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